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May 11, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30
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#1 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: [AUS]
Profession: N/Mo
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Ability to setup a market stall for selling
Many online games all have a small market stall system (looks like a speech stand) that you just put in the title of the stall (eg. ELEMENTAL STAFFS NOTHING OVER 10k, that will display if your mouse is over the person, just like the character name system), the item you want to sell, the quantity, and the amount (when you click on the stall's name you wanted, it will open up a screen like the merchants with 10 items showing with descriptions, quantity, and amount). There are Five main advantages to this.
1. The seller does not have to be there all the time, so he can just leave the computer on and do something else. If customers need to haggle price, they can just pm the seller, and the seller can negotiate the price privately. 2. The normal channels will be free from people who just spam WTS, {WTS}, [WTS], or what other ways to display selling requests. It is very annoying that we cannot talk to normal people without using the pm system. 3. The Trade Channel will be used to automate advertising of the people who have the stall setup. (say advertise : ELEMENTAL STAFFS NOTHING OVER 10K, once per the amount of people who also have setup stall in the same area, so it will display once only until it have gone through everyone's stall title. I think if you set it up like that, you can cut down on 70% of the current bandwith needed to maintain all the spams. Average person spams the same message 3 times, so if you do this, they don't even need to spam themselves knowing that it is automated, and it is fair.) 4. You (NCSOFT) can sell upgrades to the stalls, like better stall displays (instead of made of wood table, a made of silver table, stall decorations like a minipet stuff toy hanging on the side of the stall table.) for a small cash amount like $1-2, since there are over 1 million people who play guildwar, at $1-2 upgrade per person, you will have $1-2 million dollars just for people to have a better looking stall. 5. Last but not least, you will cut down on the scammers who take money and run or give the wrong items and then refuse to take it back, this way, the transaction is very clean cut, it is all automated, and once you accepted it, then it is your own responibility for any faults found afterward. Thanks for looking. Last edited by Lord Damman; May 11, 2007 at 11:35 AM // 11:35.. |
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May 11, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57
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#2 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2006
Profession: E/
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Hundreds of people in one town, outpost or capital city. Each setting up a stall to sell items. Can you see the problem?
Imagine the scene.... ....Lion's Arch full of people standing around storage, the fountain, and the merchants square, placing stalls which probably take up a fair amount of space. How many people try to trade every 10 minutes in a city? dozens! Imagine all of them trying to this at the same time! And everyone would want to do it in district 1. This causes major lag, major conjestion, an inability to select NPCs due to over crowding, an inability to select individual players due to over crowding. Plus everyone would want that "perfect spot" to set up at. People would place a stand inside someone elses to stop them trading. /not signed |
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May 11, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27
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#3 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: [AUS]
Profession: N/Mo
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All the other games I saw the stall take up the same amount of space as a standing person, if you read my idea properly, I said the stall looks like a speech stand, space wise its the same as a normal person, they are having problems with people spamming 3 of the same messages as it is now, this way, at least it will keep the spammers off the normal chat line. If other games like Goonzu, and Prince online can do it, why wouldn't guildwar be able to do it?
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May 11, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31
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#4 | |||||
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
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i can imagine dozens of stalls next to each other... how peacefully quiet that would be! no problem with that. Quote:
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another thing is that people might keep spamming even with trade stalls in place, but well... at least trading would be possible without having to actually read the whole crap flying by your chat window. ... all in all i'm for any solution to the current trading mess. be it auction house, trade stalls, or even just a quick fix by making the search tab entries hold more text. /signed |
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May 11, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49
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#5 | |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2006
Profession: E/
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Quote:
And because people can just errect a stall, and leave it and walk away. You will end up with 1000s of stalls in one city. We would need a limit on how many stalls in one outpost, and a limit on how long they stay opened. If you imagine everyone in the entire campaign moving into LA at the same time, into distirct 1 to try and get that "sweet spot" to errect a stall and keep it there. It might get abused by bots too. People create a bot or a second charcter who sits in LA, sets up a stall and continues to do this every 10 minutes to ensure theu dont loose the spot. Im just not sure about it. I can see it getting messy. |
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May 11, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10
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#6 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Jul 2006
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n this idea cause many games to suck as well because of the amount of ppl afk-ing there or ppl just being there..the lag is massive..LA/Kaineng/Kamadan is bad enuff as it is..maybe there should be a new market zone where u go in and get the lag fest of uir life tryin to look for an item
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May 11, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35
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#7 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
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of course players would NOT be able to set a stall and leave it and walk away... no stall without merchant. technically speaking the player model would be replaced by the stand, and if they want to walk somewhere else, they would have to close the stall first.
maybe there would be more districts, but there's no reason why districts would become any more crowded than they are now. |
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May 11, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59
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#8 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Profession: Mo/Me
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or you could make another place the 'ship' could go to. i saw this in another mmorpg, it worked pritty god damn well tbh the people would set up there stalls, put items in there "stall inventory" set prices for each item in there inventory, then either go afk or go questing or somthing then if anyone has brought anything there money will appear in the "stall money box" and the item the person brought will appear in there inventory. it was realy eaisy to use, and in the other towns there was no one tring to sell or buy stuff because everyone else was in this one town.
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May 11, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17
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#9 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2007
Profession: R/Mo
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I don't agree with the original post - Theres a max limit to how many people can be in an outpost...With this you could easily end up with a district full of sellers that can't let in buyers!
But I like what the guy just above has said - about a market stall city - that i will sign 
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May 11, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35
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#10 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)
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already posted and linked to in index of ideas. And now for my standard anti-stall rant:
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May 12, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57
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#11 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: [AUS]
Profession: N/Mo
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The people AFK problem, is already existing anyway, I mean, I can leave my character on guildwar 24/7 so can everyone else (People already use scripts to farm anyway), so what changes in terms of bandwith usage?
As for people crowding, we have that already also anyway, people jumping to District 1 for selling. (and they spam the crap out of the normal chat and trade window) The bandwith usage is far worst if there is no order of selling, at least this way, we will see minimal spamming in the normal window. (At least it worked for all the other on-line games I play anyway) They will have to stay in the stall and not quest, but then again, people who are not questing just stand there and spam channels anyway, so nothing changed there as well. Worst case senario, they will make a new stall zone just for people to sell and buy in. Isn't the whole point of playing a mmorpg is to see lots of people in one area? So why would you not want to see lots of people and stalls? People selling some items too cheap problem, what makes you think that there ain't any people sellnig items too cheap/expensive right now? I've seen the scar eaters selling for only 2k, I seen people trying to sell minipets at 100K+50 ectos. The bottom line is that, it is up to your own choice what price you want to sell/buy, if you want to sell all items at 1g, it will be up to you. There are people who buy and onsell items right now anyway. (I am one, I have around 200K, all the first series of minipets, and 4 pages of greens, and most of the weapons I wanted for my characters and heroes from 3 weeks of trading, beat farming them myself anyday. You cannot critize someone for having a brain and make money when you cannot see the opportunity. How do you think the real world works? Money is make by the people who see an opportunity and takes the risks.) The whole stall system will make the price more stable as othersellers will see what others are selling at, and will priced it similarly, if they decide to sell cheaper then you get a bargin isn't it? Open market trading is always going to make the item market stablise the price better than a closed system. (you mean to say that in real life you do not shop around before you commit yourself to buy an item?) There is always the risk of someone else else buying it before you anyway, you want the item, just pay, real life is no different in that aspect anyway. People having one account to sell and one to play, well, then it means that NCSOFT will sell more accounts isn't it, more money for them is always good. All and all, NCsoft is there to make money, the stall idea can help generate money and also correct a few of the existing problems, there is nothing to lose there. Last edited by Lord Damman; May 12, 2007 at 02:07 AM // 02:07.. |
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May 12, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02
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#12 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I'm sorry man, no matter how much I like this idea, it's been suggested a few too many times (without the stall), and has been shot.
I just say that we should leave the trading system in GW1 alone and then we can focus on GW2. /notsigned |
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May 12, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38
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#13 | |||||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)
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As for farming scripts, thats against the rules as is. Quote:
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2 - Most people want the trading to be quick and easy, not realistic. 3 - The onselling isn't really a problem. The problem is that people who are able to get a stall in a more visible location (say, a lower district number) have a much better chance of selling that those who come in later to find all the low numbered districts have no free spots for a stall to be placed because people with secondary accounts leave their stall running 24/7. 4 - When you go looking around for a good price in real life, how many places do you look through ? How many of them don't stock the item your after ? In maple story I regularly had to spend about 15 minutes minimum just to find one stall with the item I wanted to buy, and that was a reasonably common ore. So at 3 stalls a minute, thats 45 stalls that didn't have anything I was interested in. Quote:
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May 12, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16
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#14 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: [AUS]
Profession: N/Mo
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As a business model, you look at what will make you money and if it is acceptable to the players. A stall will generate more income for NCSOFT in general instead of losing money, the wasted time on the consumer's hand takes a backseat usually in the case of money vs users. Your citicisum is on the point that all the ideas have to be compliant to your standards AND ALSO fixes exisitng problems, if that is the case, you might as well just wait for GW2, and see if they did fix all the problems. Fixing a problem with no finacial benerfits will only make a company waste money in the long run, therefore if you got a solution/suggestions make it in a way that the NCSOFT can use it and also have money to maintain it.
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May 12, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24
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#15 | ||||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)
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1 - Reduce trade spam 2 - Allow you to quickly buy the items your after 3 - Allow the casual sellers to easily sell items for a fair price (fair price being the one where you have a similar number of buyers and sellers) 4 - Prevent people being able to easily inflate prices simply because they are the only visible seller. Now the stall fixes problem 1. It does nothing towards 2 and 3, and actually makes 4 worse because people could setup stalls where people look first and then keep them up, pushing the casual sellers to the back where hardly anyone goes because they found it sooner and would like to get back to playing guild wars. At least with the current system everyone can rotate in and out of the trading districts. To fix 2, 3 and 4 you require a searching feature so that people can easily find the items they are buying/selling and compare prices (to either buy the cheapest, or place on sale at slightly below the current cheapest). But once you have a searching feature the individual stalls become irrelevant because people just use the search and then go to the stall they are buying from, but the stalls still have the bandwidth use. So it makes sense to cut costs by disabling the stalls part, and let the search also look at the items offline players are selling. But then you no longer have the stalls. In fact if you do those changes the only difference this would have between an Auction house is that you don't have the bidding system (though it could be added later). Quote:
Considering how many times ANET has promised no additional fees, I don't see them being able to charge extra for any solution to the trade problem without losing the majority of their customers. I know that if ANET tries that I'll refuse to buy anything more from them. |
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May 14, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52
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#16 | |||
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: [AUS]
Profession: N/Mo
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Quote:
 4. You (NCSOFT) can sell upgrades to the stalls, like better stall displays (instead of made of wood table, a made of silver table, stall decorations like a minipet stuff toy hanging on the side of the stall table.) for a small cash amount like $1-2, since there are over 1 million people who play guildwar, at $1-2 upgrade per person, you will have $1-2 million dollars just for people to have a better looking stall. Now you see, basic stall = free, fancier looking stall = pay very little money, no difference from the guildwar store where you buy extra character slots for $10, or the all skill pvp account for $28. Quote:
2. Finding the item you need is up to both parties, the buyers and sellers, you cannot expect either one to make it so simple to the point of google. (unless NCSOFT really want to recode a lot of the existing systems). Therefore improvements should be as close to the original as possible using existing codes. Thats why again in the original post, the title of the stall, will be visible only when the mouse is moved over the stall itself. 3. Yea well again move mouse over a few stall to see if they "TITLE" (if they falsing advertise that what can you do) the same type of things they are sell and check out their prices. 4. If they are the only one visible, can't be until you move your mouse over all the other stalls as well. To me it is not a problem to browse through stalls as I like to shop around, I bargin prices, and I negotiate prices, just like in real life. I don't know about other people, but my guess is, if you are lazy, and can't be bothered to ask around, or wait 10 minutes before buying something, and you are willing to pay top dollar for the item, then it is your choice. There will always be the "Best" spots to setup stalls and people who put up stupid prices (You think the second year mini-pets are not stupid price right now?!?!), but you are forgetting that it is still up to the individuals to have some common sense, if you lack it or play it like a idiot, then even god can't help you. As for your suggestion of auction house, it is close to what is called an open commodity marketplace (you will know about how this one works if you trade commodities on the international markets), basically, you still submit say 10 item's name + quantities + price to a database which also shows how much price and quantities of the same item from other sellers is on the database. One main problem with this will be, the database will need to be totally newly coded, also a normal commodity market does not show quality of products, since there are so many different possible mods and inscriptions etc etc, I doubt it will show all the required informations, in the amount of space we have on the desktop. Again, with the commodity marketplace trading it is for people who have really strong logical minds and common sense, not really newbie friendly (SELLER AND BUYERS) if you lack in that department. But, Hey, I don't mind, I can make even more virtual gold on a system like that then you can ever farm in a life time. Quote:
Therefore everyone seems to believe that once you give money for a product, then thats it, the company that sold the products is responsible for all fixing of bugs that existed in the existing system. Thats a fair comment to make, right? As a consumer I think thats fair. I buy a car, and they have factory recalled such as newly discovered faults, they should fix it with no cost to me. Ok, so what about updates? As in new contents, new skills, new minipets, new this, new that? Does the money you paid out originally for one product purchase also should allow you to new contents? Its not part of the original program, nor it is part of the original product, so does not fall under the warranty factors. For a game that DO NOT charge monthly and still have new features and contents, most gamers are still whining like a 3 year old child, asking for updateds/improvement based on what THEY PERSONALLY WANT, (Just because something is not up to your standard does not make it faulty, NOT FAULTY = NOT WARRANTABLE. Just like if you do not like the taste of a dish of food in a restarant, do you then request the cook to make you the same dish to your liking? I would like to see you do that.) not based on what is possible to change while using as much of the existing system as possible. If your answer to updates should be free, because you give them your money of $XX, and you enjoy playing the game and you expect everything else after that is free etc etc. Let me ask you two more questions, do you enjoy playing on your pc? Do you think all pc upgrades after your initial purchase of the pc should be free? If you answer yes to all three questions, then I am sadly to annouce that, you are never going to be satified in life, and are illogical and will always just whine about things yet do nothing yourself to make things happend youeself. Now that the english lesson part is over, lets move back to the main objectives. My suggestions were based on functionality, minimal code changing, and of course finacial maintaince factor, in real life I find that by giving someone an incentive to change something, they are more willing and do a better job then simply just whine and whine and whine about the problem and telling someone it should eb done this way or that way. (If you think it is wrong then how about you try to code it the rigth way and show that that this is what it should be like?) Therefore if NCSOFT can see that by recoding the existing system to a system, that they can potientally get an extra $1 or $2 million dollars afterward, of course they will seriously consider the idea. I don't about you, but i can definately say that the people of asian countries will definately buy the "deluxe" stall upgrades if the pirce is like $1 or $2, as that is just how their businesses works in real life. So, after all of that explaining, if you still think can't read/understand my english, then I give up. 
Last edited by Lord Damman; May 14, 2007 at 12:04 PM // 12:04.. |
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May 14, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36
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#17 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
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i agree that an auction house would be better than trade stalls...
but trade stalls would still be way better than what we have now. |
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May 14, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26
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#18 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Belgium
Guild: [FaRM] Farm For The Win
Profession: N/
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When will you people finally start to realize that the closest thing to an proper trade function is the search window.
Market Stalls, Auction houses etc... are just not feasible anymore. As said above. Leave GW 1 for what it is and focus on GW 2 |
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May 14, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21
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#19 | |||||||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)
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Sure you don't need to change the interface much, but the underlying code will need to be written from scratch for both options. Quote:
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How often do you have repeat customers as a real estate agent ? |
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May 15, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20
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#20 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: [AUS]
Profession: N/Mo
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Lot of time, considering in Western Australia , properties is a better investment than say stock market, or the banks. Most of my customers just call me up in the middle of the night and tell me they want to sell or buy properties. (We have no life apprently) Normal customers maybe 2-3 in 10 years, its all about customer relations, if you don't do the right thing by them, they will not call you again, but if you do the right thing by them, then they will call you when they need something.
Look, my point to this whole thing is that, instead of just going on and on about take take take , you should have a give and take solution, you take and give a bit as well, fair trade always works wonders in realestate. If they sell stall upgrades, I will buy it if it will make my stall more swanker than the one next to me, (depend on the item and the price of course. )P.S. Regarding the coding, I was software development for 10 years before I got sick and tired of the people contracting you complaining about it is not simply, good enough or why can't it be done this way (you think you can do better then why don't you code it, sometime it just can't do what you want ti to do.) etc etc, so I just quit, study for 6 month for my real estate license. The interface codes is there, the idle actions graphics just get changed over, Inventory is based on what you have anyway, titling system need a bit of minor adjustments, the only thing need to be coded is the stall setup interface, if I am not mistaken, some of the code is there already as the NPC's buying and selling's AI (30%?!?), therefore most of the coding is there, just need to change a bit of it for consumer uses. The Auction house/Commodities trading code will be a new system wide database, not a local one like your own inventory. Since you sumbit all items to a database, that database will need to be coded, and the interface *may* use about 20% of existing interfaces, but I can't see that from happening as there is not enough room to show the appropriate informations. Again thats based on how I would use it, the programers of NCSOFT could be a lot smarter than you and me, so who knows. (maybe I am just to use to the interfaced of Goonzu, I am expecting guildwar's interface to be the same as well) Last edited by Lord Damman; May 15, 2007 at 07:22 AM // 07:22.. |
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